Buying and selling property shouldn’t feel like a maze. In this episode of the drifthome podcast, Cassandra Humbert sits down with Chris Barry (Thomas Legal) to unpack why conveyancing moves so slowly, where the real bottlenecks are, and how better collaboration – plus sensible tech like AI and upfront information – can speed everything up for buyers, sellers and agents alike.
Chris explains why today’s UK transactions take 120–140 days, how upfront information and joined-up CRMs could cut that dramatically, and where AI (and maybe blockchain) can remove heavy admin without losing human judgement. The pair dig into trust, referrals, and why mass-market “one trusted front door” for the whole journey could change the game.
- Why it’s slow: Layered regulation, fragmented stakeholders, and under-resourced authorities make transactions drag.
- Upfront info = time back: Getting searches and legal prep done during the marketing phase can shrink timelines.
- AI’s near-term win: Triage, document extraction, ID/AML once-only checks, and inquiry drafting are ripe for automation.
- Collaboration matters: Best outcomes happen when broker, agent, lawyer & tech work as one team (with clear comms).
- Trust & recommendations: Strong, relationship-led referrals outperform fee-led, corporate mandates.
- Future bets: Low-barrier tools for small firms, joined-up CRMs, and (longer term) tokenised ownership rails.
drifthome Podcast – “Fixing the Legal Bottleneck” with Chris Barry, Thomas Legal
Recorded: 25 Sept 2025
Guests: Cassandra Humbert (CH), Chris Barry (CB)
[14:39] CH: What does your day-to-day look like at Thomas Legal?
[14:50] CB: My role’s unusual for a law firm — the lawyers lawyer; I front the business, BD and partnerships. We try to make life easier for agents and brokers, and we do a lot B2C too…
[15:53] CH: In your words, what do you do that makes life easier for property pros?
[16:02] CB: Service consistency at scale. We invest in people and keep workloads sane so when clients call, they reach someone with twice the resource, half the work…
[17:18] CH: What first drew you into this side of the industry?
[17:31] CB: In banking I loved solving complex lending — helping people buy homes felt meaningful. After redundancy in 2016, I moved into development, then conveyancing. It’s archaic (property law goes back to 1066!) — disrupting that is… fun. Calling clients to say “keys are ready” is still the best part.
[19:18] CH: Are we finally moving past “archaic”, especially with AI?
[19:54] CB: AI learns exponentially. A lot of conveyancing is Q&A; with enough data, systems can learn patterns and next questions. We’re not at full replacement yet, but AI can read mortgage offers, pull key points, and draft enquiries. The challenge: 4,500 firms, many tiny — they can’t all invest, so solutions must be low-cost and easy to adopt…
[23:24] CH: Biggest challenges buyers and sellers face, legally?
[23:33] CB: Buyers want speed; we sometimes find issues that need time to fix now and for resale. Sellers struggle to keep buyers engaged over 3–6 months while portals ping alternatives. Uncertainty doesn’t help.
[25:35] CH: Can sellers pre-empt issues?
[25:43] CB: Yes. Use the marketing window (~3 months) to sort legal prep. If you de-risk early, the offer-to-exchange window shrinks.
[26:26] CH: Where do sellers get that advice?
[26:33] CB: From conveyancers — and a few tech firms pushing material/upfront information. But the lawyer must still advise and prepare solutions.
[27:21] CH: Is it fair to blame conveyancing for delays?
[27:40] CB: Not entirely — but it’s a big part. Regulation accretes after every problem, so timelines expanded from 6–8 weeks decades ago to today’s 120–140 days. Lenders, Land Registry backlogs, and local authority delays add friction. Post-Grenfell building safety is a major pain point.
[29:08] CH: Other countries can complete in days — how?
[29:08] CB: Scotland/US/France push vendor packs, enforce dates, and put people financially on the hook — more like auctions.
[30:24] CH: What could we front-load for buyers?
[30:24] CB: AML & source-of-funds (esp. gifts/overseas) and local searches — sellers could order earlier. It needs a behavioural shift: be willing to spend a little before you list.
[32:18] CH: What tech has helped most recently?
[32:34] CB: Single, regulator-approved ID done once and shared beats repeating checks for every party. Remote ID via app saves weeks.
[33:47] CH: You’re known for connecting people — any standout impact?
[34:29] CB: Best feeling is matchmaking two people who later do years of business together. Face-to-face is gold, but even email intros can spark big outcomes. Trust grows with familiarity — LinkedIn helps here.
[37:12] CH: Where could collaboration improve most?
[37:33] CB: Put the best broker, agent, lawyer, and proptech round one (virtual) table. The #1 thing everyone asks for is communication — not just with clients, but between professionals.
[39:27] CH: (Connells documentary) Has it hurt trust in referrals?
[40:14] CB: It highlighted negatives. Referrals should be relationship-led, not fee-led. Corporate pressure for conversion creates poor margins and worse service. Strongest recs come from long-term trust (e.g., a broker who’s helped for years).
[45:18] CH: If you could redesign the process…
[45:18] CB: Short-term: much more upfront info. Near-term: AI to remove admin across mortgage/agency/legals. Long-term: decentralised rails; tokenised ownership trials abroad hint at future potential.
[48:11] CH: Biggest gap across the journey?
[48:11] CB: Everything’s siloed. From saving a deposit to getting keys, the consumer navigates detached tools. Join it up.
[50:53] CH: Even saving is tricky for agents to advise on.
[51:25] CB: UK consumers dislike discussing money. A neutral, guided digital flow for savings and borrowing could help.
[52:06] CH: We’re building an AI guide inside drifthome…
[52:47] CB: The big opportunity: one trusted front door that orchestrates the whole journey and team for the consumer.
[56:05] CH: What makes a proptech solution actually stick?
[56:05] CB: Design for lawyers first (hardest to win). Provide web-based, low-cost tools for one-person firms; minimal integration burden.
[58:24] CH: Do buyers/sellers notice innovation?
[58:59] CB: They expect it. Many wins will be behind the scenes (costs fall → prices should fall). Front-end breakthroughs like drifthome are immediately visible.
[01:06:47] CH: Zero-deposit mortgages coming back — thoughts?
[01:06:47] CB: Remove barriers, yes — but with stricter criteria. Avoid >100% LTV. The market changed since 2008: longer terms (30–40 years), interest-only options — affordability isn’t the only blocker; confidence is.
[01:11:08] CH: Only ~2.65% of Rightmove buyer leads convert. Something’s broken.
[01:11:51] CB: Agreed — and long-running deals are wobbling at the higher end due to headlines.
[01:12:14] CH: How do we nudge industry mindsets forward?
[01:12:37] CB: Adopt tech or get left behind. With hiring costs up and fewer workers entering the economy, productivity must rise — tech is the lever.
[01:16:19] CH: If you built a fully joined-up platform…
[01:16:19] CB: Mass adoption across all professions, independent vetting, evidence-based reviews, and modern distribution (social/video). Replicate the “elite deal table” experience for everyone.
